strong content warning for themes of suicide and drug use.
2016 Extra Comic (Lola)
2016 Extra Comic (Sugar)
16th Feb 2017, 12:00 PM
16th Feb 2017, 12:00 PM
finally, finally getting to the meat of this subplot.
16th Feb 2017, 12:41 PM
this scene is gonna make me cry tbh
16th Feb 2017, 1:09 PM
im having trouble interpreting the gesture in panel 5..
other than that, ive said it before but ill say it again i love the raw emotion in your expressions..i can really tell what sugars feeling and i know thats harder to convey than it seems but its done so well here
16th Feb 2017, 1:11 PM
im dying im dying im dead me too sugar
16th Feb 2017, 2:59 PM
What a cruel pun for such a heartbreking page.
Guest from p41
16th Feb 2017, 3:15 PM
Hunger is a strange feeling. I almost want to call it an emotion, because when it's at an extreme level, it certainly leads to other emotions. I read on another page that you (the author) suffer from Anorexia, so I would be interested to know if the way hunger feels to you is similar to the way Sugar talks about it.
Even though I love cooking and eating, it's especially strange to me how dark it is... hunger. Living things have to consume for sustenance and usually we'll consume things that are either organic/biological, or have come from such a source.
Like Lola says, I guess bodies aren't meant to do anything except keep living...
Maybe worse, I'm mostly a meat eater myself, and I love animals, especially mammals - but I wouldn't have a problem putting the vast majority of them in my mouth for the purpose of eating them.
I don't spend too much time thinking about it, but when I do, it does make me wish that subverting natural needs and impulses was easier (or in some cases, even possible at all).
Without going very much in-depth about this, in my opinion, "vore" fantasies are quite strongly related to this dark feeling of a need that -must- be satisfied; a very fleshy, and sometimes even gross, need.
I'm actually quite hungry just at the moment, as I've been unable to eat very much through most of today. I was trying to make a point, but I can't remember what it was :I Would still love to know what other people think of hunger in general, as a feeling or sensation.
16th Feb 2017, 10:30 PM
i think hunger is a sensation that feels like an emotion due to how hunger works on a neurological level.
dopamine (we will ignore, for the sake of simplicity, that dopamine does different things depending on what region of the brain) is our strongest, most basic feel-good chemical. you can only get it (substantially) from 3 things: sex, sleep, and food.
because hunger is driven by a chemical that so strongly affects emotional states, it can feel like an emotion. moreover, it explains why hunger can sometimes be entirely an emotion (someone craving food when they just ate), or entirely a sensation (stomach hurts but they don't want to eat).
it gets more complicated when social expectations are thrown into the mix. weight, money, ethics, manners, culture, etc. people need to eat so often, it can be one of the most repetitive, inescapable stressors possible, which probably adds to the strength of emotions about it.
it gets even more complicated when you put schizophrenia into the equation. schizophrenia is caused be a deficit in the amount of dopamine receptors a brain has. there's too much dopamine floating around, all your receptors are always activating to try to get rid of it, and you grow numb to pleasure in general.
for sugar, she probably eats more for relief, than enjoying the food. this probably contributes to why she sees herself eating as sucking up resources as opposed to just eating a meal.
for myself personally, i used to feel similarly to sugar... i'm not her size anymore, i can pay for my own food now, and i don't eat anything that comes from animals anymore, which helps somewhat... i believe there are elements of fear/punishment and attractiveness/peer approval that i believe sugar doesn't have.
hope you had something to eat! thank you for the feedback.
Guest from p41
17th Feb 2017, 12:04 PM
Thanks for your reply.
It was quite interesting to read what you said, especially about dopamine - it made me remember the time when my mom (who suffers from bipolar) had not been eating and eventually she started to get very paranoid about people wanting to drug her and kill us, eventually having a psychotic breakdown.
What you say about the emotionality of hunger and the context and social expectations also makes a lot of sense to me. I am very thankful for never having suffered hunger due to my environment, but I knew people that did, and it is quite a painful thing to remember - that someone I personally knew, suffered that way.
I'm glad you were able to improve or put yourself in better conditions.
I don't know if there's something behind this that I'm ignorant about, but the way I've seen you comment on the characters and their traits or actions - it's very interesting; it's like they are a person you are trying to discover more about?
When you say that Sugar eats more for relief, is it correct to presume that you mean physical relief? When you state that "there's too much dopamine floating around, all your receptors are always activating to try to get rid of it, and you grow numb to pleasure in general." that resonates with depression boredom to me.
All I know is that I don't know as much as I'd like to know... But reading what you have to say outside the story itself is really interesting for me.
And yes, eventually a couple of hours later I did eat, thank you!
17th Feb 2017, 1:39 PM
Hey love your comic and the discussions it often elicits. Your comment about hunger as an emotion made me have a lot of thoughts.
I'm taking care of a baby as a new parent now, and your reminder that dopamine is derived from eating as a primary source made me think about how it starts from the moment we're born.
We have to cry and seek relief from hunger as babies and its generally accepted in psychology that its the basis of a trust attachment. One thing they told me in the hospital is to try and feed my baby before crying because that's a "late hunger signal." But its hard, because parents have to eat, to take care of needs too, and you'll feel really awful when you have to leave your child crying for a few minutes just to warm up a plate of your own food!
But yeah point being hunger is like, a huge basis of where our temperament evolves from. If you have to be fed infrequently or from a source other than a parent it can affect attachment, it can make a young child anxious and temperamental. They'll learn that they gotta cry and they'll feel upset when it starts coming to other needs. But its really impossible to prevent, as I said parents have other needs and are learning too.
Not to speculate and arm chair psychologist too much, but it seems Sugar did have a healthy food attachment at one point. But then, something like shizophrenia, which develops later, can really have a profound effect on her feelings on it. Which I think is a good way to show that shizophrenia is really its own thing, you can have a good life, a privileged one, one where your attachments were pretty "good" and developed "normally," but you still have to deal with the outcomes of the paranoia and other effects of shizophrenia. Even medicated, it would be a constant fight to not let those perceptions and sensations affect your sense of self too much.
I don't really have shizophrenia, but its a good way I think to show how hard it can be, and helps me try to understand more. This was kind of rambly and I hope I don't offend/trigger anyone, I just thought it was really interesting.
16th Feb 2017, 5:07 PM
The way you render and write feelings is really good, it feels real like, I feel how I word things when truly upset and especially how you do the word escalation with the third-to-last panel having the jagged text bubbles with bold speech.
16th Feb 2017, 5:09 PM
I love this comic so fucking much, thank you for making it, you have created incredibly good art
16th Feb 2017, 5:10 PM
i KNEW there was a hidden tension in the previous scene sdfdsfsds i love how subtle and carefully crafted each scene and panel is. it's so good.
i love the change in the way the text bubbles are draw to show sugar's voice growing increasingly more shaky before the borders all but dissolve in her speech bubbles. i love the symbolism there.
its also pretty easy to tell that lola is experiencing a mental BSoD (blue screen of death), and to me its kind of shown in how she defaults to a sort of 'okay i have no idea what's going on so im going to give life advice'. basically the lola version of petting somebody and going 'there there', i guess? i might be misinterpreting it tho.
sugar and her issues with food are also very relateable for me. i love how her food issues have a double meaning in how she inherently sees herself as predatory for multiple reasons, as well as the fact that she feels like she's a danger to people because she's an obligate carnivore (i know carnivorism has multiple meanings in this story but in this particular sequence it feels like a metaphor for 'i feel like im inherently dangerous because im mentally ill')
another brilliant, if heartbreaking page as always.
16th Feb 2017, 5:59 PM
panel 11 kills me
16th Feb 2017, 6:18 PM
this comic is amazing and one of my fave things to look forward to every week, cant wait for next weeks update!
16th Feb 2017, 9:30 PM
I adore how you organize the typesetting and speech bubbles to bring out the verbal nuances in the dialogue. All of the formatting and structure of your pages hold so much meaning and convey so much, I really admire that.
17th Feb 2017, 1:24 AM
all these night scenes have felt really personal with the way you pace them. (I cant name a page of drop out which didnt feel personal tbh-) and the way you handle light and shadow in these pages too make them some of my favorites!!!! I still think about the panels when lola was on their phone because of how awesome and real that lighting was^^
17th Feb 2017, 1:28 AM
oof that's visceral
17th Feb 2017, 10:59 PM
there ahve been like only three or four stories to hit me as hardas this holy fuck
20th Feb 2017, 4:50 PM
after reading this page, I went to go read cross-check again because I knew Sugar mentioning Frankie and meat sounded familiar. this page really puts that scene in cross-check in a different light. i really love how drop-out intersects with all your other comics!
2nd Jul 2017, 6:18 PM
whoooa i never thought about how guilty sugar must feel abt being a fat carnivore. ik theres a bunch of symbolism too but just on the surface, i never realized the implications it had, that she realized once she met lola and her friends.
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